Solidarnosc Still Has One Million Members

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'Solidarnosc has now been operating underground achieyements during this period?

Achievements at two levels can be discussed -imposition of martial law, everything hinged on v continuity and to defend itself as an organisation, ‹ In my opinion, this struggle was won by us. The Union currently maintains its activity at all levels - national, regional and factory - and, moreover, its structures are renewable, despite the blows inflicted on it by the Si curity Service.

While the captüre of certain people could indeed have resulted in the paralysis of the Union at the very beginning of martial law, today even after such setbacks as the Hardek affair and the breaking up of a regional structure, the latter was rebuilt in a short space of time.

Could the Temporary Coordinating Committee [TKK] also be rebuilt?

Yes, now the structure of the TKK could be rebuilt. We've acquired resistance to the blows of the Security Service because at both national and regional level, certain individuals are willing to function under their own names. This protects us from infiltration hv the Securitv Service. and from WAIT MULLA all types of provocation.

The adoption of the principle of open leadership is a continuation of the openness of union life; for Solidarnose members it is also a symbol of the legality of our activity. I consider that our very existence would be threatened were we to do away with this principle in favour of operating under pseudonyms. The co-option of several-score named individuals to the TKK and to the more important regions cannot pose a problem for a union comprising around a million people.

Furthermore, the fact that the Union's leaders are known creates a psychological bind — a sense of common leadership — which helps make us a united organisation.

You say Solidarnose numbers a million people. Who are they?

Of course, this is an estimate. It includes those paying Union dues and receiving benefits, as well as those receiving the Union press. According to our information, roughly 10% of people in each centre pay dues, and different actions are employed at smaller enterprises, and the situation in these varies: either they are extremely well organised and 50-70% of the workforce pays dues, or nothing happens in them at all. Many more people read the (underground) press than pay dues, and many more also involve themselves sporadically in Solidarnose demonstration, 1982 the political and the organisational. After the hether Solidarnose would be able to maintain or whether it would be crushed.

Union activity. All things considered, a million is probably a conservative estimate.

What do you mean by the Union's achievement on the political level?

Above all that the whole of our society is, without exception, aware of both the immediate and long-term aims of Solidarnosc. Everyone knows that our current basic aim is the freeing of the political prisoners, as well as winning union pluralism and the right for other independent unions and associations to exist.

*Then there are our other important tasks for today: the struggle with the fall in living standards, and the preparation for a boycott of the The fact that people are aware of these aims and that they agree with them means that they identify with the Union - and this is where the Union's strength lies. These immediate aims and assignments constitute a preliminary stage in the achievement of our long-term basic alms.

Winning freedom for political prisoners is a stage in the struggle for full law and order, while the boycott of the elections and the building of independent organisations are steps on the path to sovereignty.

None of these aims divide; they unite people, and make for unity and activity, despite extensive decentralisation.

Another important achievement has been the definition of the organisation's identity, and the adherence to the principle of its defence. Neither the union movement, nor (any other independent) associations permit any concessions when it comes to matters deciding on their independence.

While they are quite prepared to negotiate with the authorities when it comes to other issues, they are manifestly aware that relinquishing even a fraction of their identity would lead to their automatic absorption into the totalitarian system of government.

As proof of this, they have both past Polish experiences, and the highly enlightening example of Czechoslovakia, where, following the Soviet intervention, the adoption of the principle that everything possible must be saved at all costs ended in the complete suppression of absolutely everything. The workers at Gdansk shipyard listen to Lech Walesa, In Poland, the unions did not give in, and smashing them proved an impossibility, so that -despite their formal disolution — they continue to exert a powerful and potent influence.

Take the example of the writers: they made no compromise, which meant that the whole milieu retained its authority, and is still able to influence the life of the country.

You've discussed the Union's survival, the general awareness of its aims, the retention of its identity, and the organisation's independence. These are obvious achievements. However, people await concrete and effective activities, for it is only these that they tend to regard as successes.

The effectiveness of the Union's activities won't become really obvious until after our struggle in connection with the price rises and the elections. The fact that we are dealing with a totalitarian regime influences our methods of operation. This is the reason why our means of exerting pressure involve principally direct resistance: demonstrations on the one hand, and boycotts and organisation in unofficial currents on the other.

I'm quite convinced that if it weren't for demonstrations, many of the regime's decisions up until now - in fact, our entire situation — would now be considerably worse than it is.

True, it's difficult to prove the success of a demonstration, but there is no doubt that they are essential. The authorities must by now be aware that both the price rises and the elections will be accompanied by demonstrations of some kind.

The fact is, demonstrations are the basic weapon of any society struggling against a totalitarian system — as can currently be witnessed in Chile.

As long as the regime continues to try and make all existing organisations a tool of the regime, the most effective way of opposing this is to conduct a tull ooycou or tnese organisations and to organise ourselves in unofficial currents and resolve all problems independent'y of the authorities.

The whole unofficial movement has an enormous influence on the structures organised from above by the government. For the regime unions, our activity is and will be a point of reference as long as Solidarnose exists. If the regime unions will genuinely care to concern themselves with working matters they will come into conflict with the regime: if not, they will compromise themselves utterly as trade unions.

At present, we exert a greater influence on our country's political life - as well as on other matters - than we did towards the end of our open and legal existence. August 1980 In the three months prior to 13 December 1981, the authorities were only pretending to negotiate with Solidarnosc and to arrive at agreements. In fact, they were already by-passing the Union completely, making all their decisions apart from it, and preparing for the introduction of martial law.

Now, the situation has been reversed: the authorities pretend that the Union doesn't exist, while in reality they have to take into account its existence before taking any important step.

Further, by lifting martial law and by acknowledging the situation as "normalised" while the underground exists, the authorities have signalled their reconciliation to the fact of our existence. We have thus become a permanent element of political reality in Poland.

Haven't the authorities yielded before the threat of social explosion, rather than before the pressure exerted by Solidarnose?

The regime has, up until now, managed to stifle any spontaneous outbursts quite well enough. Our strength relies on the fact that a potential explosion could, with lightning speed, take on organised forms.

It could then transpire that society's representatives would demand of the government the realisation of solutions in the realm of the functioning of the state.

Zbigniew Bujak, a central leader of the Solidarnose underground